How pro-Palestinian, "anti-colonial" progressives are painting themselves into a corner, and damaging the prospects for a left that matters in American politics.
Excellent. Overall a disheartening situation on the Left. I was just at the Intl Book Fair in Mexico City and participated in two events. One was a sort of reading/interview from the Spanish version of my book on Chile. The other was a panel with three academics on Chile. But they brought up the war only to never mention the word HAMAS and to get an ovation saying 100%. solidarity with Palestinian resistance. I countered with 100 percent solidarity with the Palestinian people, all innocent Israelis and 101% condemnation of Hamas, an ultra right wing, fundamentalist terror group dedicated to killing Jews. The detail that the Left cannot quite explain is this: if everybody knows how Israel behaves so ruthlessly (and it does) then why doesnt Hamas bear responsibility for purposefully poking the bear and guaranteeing the death of probably 10,000 Palestinian civilians. This the beginning of a Bog Reckoning on the left that has gone totally off the rails. Thanks for this post.
I appreciate this critique in large part, but I think it's a mistake to conflate these two things: 1) the failure to explicitly empathize with Jews everywhere who are hurting and fearful from the Oct 7th attack, including the failure to condemn Hamas' actions, and 2) anti-zionism writ large. The former is a huge problem that prevents anti-zionist leftists from communicating effectively with many progressive and liberal Jews moving forward. That's a deeply necessary analysis, and if that was the main thrust of this argument I'd be sharing this piece all over. As for 2), well, we disagree on that -- fair. But it also muddies the argument in a way that actually mirrors the behavior you're critiquing IMO.
On Saturday Rabbi Rachel Timoner, one of the most thoughtful progressive leaders in New York and the country gave amazing sermon. I think she finds the moral line and thoughtfulness that the current situation requires. I encourage everyone, Jew and non-Jew alike to listen.
Adam, to solve this problem you need to be serious about it.
What do you mean when you say right now? Right now Israel should stop Genocide. That's the first step.
Nothing Israel has done should justify what happens? According to international law, there is a right to resistance. So your statement goes against international law.
These myths that are used to justify the actions of the state of Israel are no way to defend these atrocities. Projecting your own crimes on others is a common practice. Here is Norman Finkelstein talking about how Israel has been using Palestinians as Human Shields.
Krishnamurti talks about how division create conflict and the ultimate act of conflict is war. Try to kill violence. As long as you have justification for violence, you are violent, and won't be able to seek peace.
The US has been wielding power to create unspeakable atrocities since its creation. Without the cover of US, Israel would never be able to do what it does.
The power is in the hands of those with the fire power. We know who they are! If you want to solve the problems of humanity, you need to be serious about it.
Excellent. And so sad. I am struggling to maintain support for the scholarship of individuals who I previously respected, and now amplify Hamas's misinformation campaigns and have not once expressed sorrow for the innocents of Israel -- Jews and non-Jews -- who were so brutally murdered.
Thank you for the response. I will share with you one personal experience. I was at a friends dinner in Berlin in 2009. He was married to a Ukrainian Jewish girl and some of her relatives were visiting from Israel. One was a colonel in the Israeli army. He basically told me without reservations that, "They have the land, we have the guns. We are there to take it".
When you listen to the rhetoric by some Israeli officials and zionist who with no shame call Palestinians vermins, and call for killing everyone in Gaza and turning it into a parking lot , you understand who you are dealing with.
This attack is in the context of this mentality. You can't separate the two. Israel and its sympetizers accuse Palestinians and Hamas of exactly what they are guilty of. This is always the case with a ideological mind that is knotted. Mathematical definition of a Knot is a one dimensional self avoiding vector. It shows up as avoiding the question and changing the topic.
The solution to the problem is stop the occupation, stop the land grab, stop the lies and look to live with others in peace. For that you have to give up your settlements that are built illegally. The state was built on a lie, but as you say we are here today, how do we move forward. I can guarantee you one thing, the Palestinians are not going away either. That is their home.
People go through experience differently. Some experience hardship and decide that they want to to better, and some live in fear.
Eran Efrati is a good example of what happens when your humanity trumps your tribe.
When you say the solution to the problem is to stop the occupation, what do you mean right now? Do you think ending occupation tomorrow would stop Hamas from committing more unimaginable atrocities? The Bibi government is corrupt, cynical and has abhorrent individuals with power that are doing inhumane things. The occupation has created tremendous damage and suffering on the part of innocent Palestinians and dehumanized both sides. But nothing Israel has done should ever justify what happened. No one, Palestinian or Jew should be a human shield or subject to collective punishment. Even those who committed acts of genocide deserve justice not wanton slaughter of their innocent neighbors. We need to find a way forward to peace and for both sides to feel seen and heard. But do you want to live in a world where terrible acts by you gives your enemy the right to commit wanton slaughter? Do we want to return to the time where the only value that mattered is power? Justice is never achieved through revenge. In the words of MLK, "in spite of temporary victories, violence never brings permanent peace. It solves no social problem: it merely creates new and more complicated ones."
Your Bias is unmistakable. Here is a statement from Gabor Matte a Holocaust survivor himself. This is what a truthful response sounds like and not the knotted argument you are trying to make,
I watched Matte's interview. A lot of what he says is valid, some is not (despite what he claims you can absolutely talk about the Nakba in Israel, for example--a simple search on any newspaper website, Times of Israel, Ha'aretz, say, will show that, and a lot of the scholarship about the Nakba has been generated by Israeli researchers). I am the child of a Holocaust survivor too, so please spare me the Shoah business. Serious question though--after we get through all the critique, what is your solution? Because what I've come to recognize is that 9 million Israelis aren't going anywhere, the same way the Palestinians aren't going anywhere. So we have to figure out how to get to co-existence, no? I didn't hear a word from Matte about that, just the words of someone who is good at critique.
Excellent. Overall a disheartening situation on the Left. I was just at the Intl Book Fair in Mexico City and participated in two events. One was a sort of reading/interview from the Spanish version of my book on Chile. The other was a panel with three academics on Chile. But they brought up the war only to never mention the word HAMAS and to get an ovation saying 100%. solidarity with Palestinian resistance. I countered with 100 percent solidarity with the Palestinian people, all innocent Israelis and 101% condemnation of Hamas, an ultra right wing, fundamentalist terror group dedicated to killing Jews. The detail that the Left cannot quite explain is this: if everybody knows how Israel behaves so ruthlessly (and it does) then why doesnt Hamas bear responsibility for purposefully poking the bear and guaranteeing the death of probably 10,000 Palestinian civilians. This the beginning of a Bog Reckoning on the left that has gone totally off the rails. Thanks for this post.
Big reckoning. Though it might end up indeed in a bog.
I appreciate this critique in large part, but I think it's a mistake to conflate these two things: 1) the failure to explicitly empathize with Jews everywhere who are hurting and fearful from the Oct 7th attack, including the failure to condemn Hamas' actions, and 2) anti-zionism writ large. The former is a huge problem that prevents anti-zionist leftists from communicating effectively with many progressive and liberal Jews moving forward. That's a deeply necessary analysis, and if that was the main thrust of this argument I'd be sharing this piece all over. As for 2), well, we disagree on that -- fair. But it also muddies the argument in a way that actually mirrors the behavior you're critiquing IMO.
On Saturday Rabbi Rachel Timoner, one of the most thoughtful progressive leaders in New York and the country gave amazing sermon. I think she finds the moral line and thoughtfulness that the current situation requires. I encourage everyone, Jew and non-Jew alike to listen.
https://youtu.be/EKo0rxAZ_hc
Adam, to solve this problem you need to be serious about it.
What do you mean when you say right now? Right now Israel should stop Genocide. That's the first step.
Nothing Israel has done should justify what happens? According to international law, there is a right to resistance. So your statement goes against international law.
These myths that are used to justify the actions of the state of Israel are no way to defend these atrocities. Projecting your own crimes on others is a common practice. Here is Norman Finkelstein talking about how Israel has been using Palestinians as Human Shields.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMTuRM8d28o
Krishnamurti talks about how division create conflict and the ultimate act of conflict is war. Try to kill violence. As long as you have justification for violence, you are violent, and won't be able to seek peace.
The US has been wielding power to create unspeakable atrocities since its creation. Without the cover of US, Israel would never be able to do what it does.
The power is in the hands of those with the fire power. We know who they are! If you want to solve the problems of humanity, you need to be serious about it.
Excellent. And so sad. I am struggling to maintain support for the scholarship of individuals who I previously respected, and now amplify Hamas's misinformation campaigns and have not once expressed sorrow for the innocents of Israel -- Jews and non-Jews -- who were so brutally murdered.
Thank you for the response. I will share with you one personal experience. I was at a friends dinner in Berlin in 2009. He was married to a Ukrainian Jewish girl and some of her relatives were visiting from Israel. One was a colonel in the Israeli army. He basically told me without reservations that, "They have the land, we have the guns. We are there to take it".
When you listen to the rhetoric by some Israeli officials and zionist who with no shame call Palestinians vermins, and call for killing everyone in Gaza and turning it into a parking lot , you understand who you are dealing with.
This attack is in the context of this mentality. You can't separate the two. Israel and its sympetizers accuse Palestinians and Hamas of exactly what they are guilty of. This is always the case with a ideological mind that is knotted. Mathematical definition of a Knot is a one dimensional self avoiding vector. It shows up as avoiding the question and changing the topic.
The solution to the problem is stop the occupation, stop the land grab, stop the lies and look to live with others in peace. For that you have to give up your settlements that are built illegally. The state was built on a lie, but as you say we are here today, how do we move forward. I can guarantee you one thing, the Palestinians are not going away either. That is their home.
People go through experience differently. Some experience hardship and decide that they want to to better, and some live in fear.
Eran Efrati is a good example of what happens when your humanity trumps your tribe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkxJd88xkBU
One of the scholars you mentioned that researched Nakba is Illan Pappe and he had to leave Israel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxQNk81ELbI
Here are Jewish people on record calling for the extermination of Gaza.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFoxL3sOAio
I am sure you are familiar with Norm Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky, Miko Peled and their views.
To commit crimes against humanity and have the audacity to defend it as legitimate goes beyond the pale, don't you agree!
When you say the solution to the problem is to stop the occupation, what do you mean right now? Do you think ending occupation tomorrow would stop Hamas from committing more unimaginable atrocities? The Bibi government is corrupt, cynical and has abhorrent individuals with power that are doing inhumane things. The occupation has created tremendous damage and suffering on the part of innocent Palestinians and dehumanized both sides. But nothing Israel has done should ever justify what happened. No one, Palestinian or Jew should be a human shield or subject to collective punishment. Even those who committed acts of genocide deserve justice not wanton slaughter of their innocent neighbors. We need to find a way forward to peace and for both sides to feel seen and heard. But do you want to live in a world where terrible acts by you gives your enemy the right to commit wanton slaughter? Do we want to return to the time where the only value that mattered is power? Justice is never achieved through revenge. In the words of MLK, "in spite of temporary victories, violence never brings permanent peace. It solves no social problem: it merely creates new and more complicated ones."
Your Bias is unmistakable. Here is a statement from Gabor Matte a Holocaust survivor himself. This is what a truthful response sounds like and not the knotted argument you are trying to make,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rm2zsgZ1QDE
I watched Matte's interview. A lot of what he says is valid, some is not (despite what he claims you can absolutely talk about the Nakba in Israel, for example--a simple search on any newspaper website, Times of Israel, Ha'aretz, say, will show that, and a lot of the scholarship about the Nakba has been generated by Israeli researchers). I am the child of a Holocaust survivor too, so please spare me the Shoah business. Serious question though--after we get through all the critique, what is your solution? Because what I've come to recognize is that 9 million Israelis aren't going anywhere, the same way the Palestinians aren't going anywhere. So we have to figure out how to get to co-existence, no? I didn't hear a word from Matte about that, just the words of someone who is good at critique.